D70 or D100

I can get these cameras for roughly the same price - so it's hard to decide which one to get.

As far as I can see it, the D70 seems better for a few reasons, but am I right in thinking that it cannot accept a large battery pack / vertical grip? This would be very useful for accepting standard AA batteries when on holiday.

Is the D100 better than the D70 in any other ways - or should I go for the newer, D70?

(by the way - my budget probably could squeeze to a 10d if that is quite a bit better)

Thanks

Francis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by red hot sheep

(by the way - my budget probably could squeeze to a 10d if that is quite a bit better)

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FWIW, The Nikon D70 costs the same or a bit more than the now discontinued 10D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by red hot sheep

I can get these cameras for roughly the same price - so it's hard to decide which one to get.

As far as I can see it, the D70 seems better for a few reasons, but am I right in thinking that it cannot accept a large battery pack / vertical grip? This would be very useful for accepting standard AA batteries when on holiday.

Is the D100 better than the D70 in any other ways - or should I go for the newer, D70?

(by the way - my budget probably could squeeze to a 10d if that is quite a bit better)

Thanks

Francis

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I don't actually know of any other ways in which the D100 (or the 10D for that matter) is better than the D70. But I can think of several ways in which the D70 is better:

- instant start-up
- fast processing
- i-TTL flash compatibility
- 1/500 second flash sync
- exposure system (1005 pixel CCD)
- brilliant kit lens

The best value right now is the D70 kit and no other.

Charles

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Franglais

I don't actually know of any other ways in which the D100 (or the 10D for that matter) is better than the D70. But I can think of several ways in which the D70 is better:

- instant start-up
- fast processing
- i-TTL flash compatibility
- 1/500 second flash sync
- exposure system (1005 pixel CCD)
- brilliant kit lens

The best value right now is the D70 kit and no other.

Charles

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Thanks for the replies :)

I thought that I read somewhere that the AF was considerably quicker on the D100 than the D70?

Anyway, the D70 does look very appealing - apart from the niggling fact that it doesn't seem to be able to have a larger battery pack / grip. :(

Thanks again

Francis

Hi,
I have the D100 and the D70. The D100 is suppose to have a more sturdy body than the D70. One reason I like the D70 better is that it can automatically show you your shot in portrait, which the D100 cannot do. This is important to me because I sometimes show clients their images on a TV or my computer before I download and can rotate a portrait shot.
Rere

I was at the Nikon School this past weekend and the factory rep thought that the D70 seemed to be the better choice right now.

Thanks for all the replies :)

So Rere15, as you have both cameras, does the D100 feel like a more expensive camera, with the D70 feeling cheaper? Because I think that I will not need all of the new features in the D70, whereas the battery pack / grip would be very important.

Can anyone confirm that the D70 cannot accept a battery pack / grip?

Thanks for all your help.

I've read before that the D70 doesn't take a battery grip and I don't think I've ever seen one - so I guess the answer is no! :) That was one of my complaints about the Fuji S2 when I bought it because I do like a vertical shutter release. I wonder about how sturdy a camera is with a battery pack on it for long shutter speeds when mounting the camera (not a lens) on a tripod. Might lose a little sharpness this way but it would be removeable.

In choosing a camera that's been on the market for less than a year (well, close to it) to one that's been on the market for about/almost three years, I think you'd have to find something you absolutely couldn't live without on the older camera to justify buying it. DSLR's are changing so fast that a three year old camera is almost a dinosaur. Sure, it's capable of great images for a long time but why buy old technology for the same price?

Yes I see what you are saying - and I would prefer to buy newer technology - but the only noticable positive points that the D70 can do, do not really seems necessary for me - but if I got the D100 I would feel that I was buying backward technology... :S

Thanks for your reply.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by red hot sheep

Yes I see what you are saying - and I would prefer to buy newer technology - but the only noticable positive points that the D70 can do, do not really seems necessary for me - but if I got the D100 I would feel that I was buying backward technology... :S

Thanks for your reply.

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The D70 uses much the same components as the D70 (the focussing system is the same, straight out of the F80/F65/F75).The D100 has a metal body over a metal chassis, the D70 has a plastic body over basically the same metal chassis plus the following:

- the metering system out of the F5: you need this because you have no exposure latitude in digital and exposure has to be as accurate as possible
- the new TTL flash system out of the D2H/X: again you need the most precise system possible because of the limitations of the sensor
- 1/500 flash sync: makes the most out of the new flash system in broad daylight
- fast processor/instant startup: because you want something that acts like a film SLR

What do you mean you don't need these things?

Charles

Hi,
I use the D70 more than the D100. I like the AF better--seems faster than the D100 and I love the beep when it's in focus.
Don't really know anything about the battery pack grip that you are talking about--I hate the books that came with the cameras--especially the D100!
I shot a wedding outside (some inside) in June and used both cameras. Didn't have any help. I had both cameras around my neck. Had a SB800 on a bracket on the D100 and used the D70 with natural light. I took about the same amount of pics on both cameras. And the people ordered about the equel amounts of pics from the cameras. I feel the group pics with the speedlght attached were better. It was a friend's daughter-though they paid me for half and I gave them an album for my present. Was shooting for 7 hours. At that time, I didn't have my studio lights. Soooo glad I bought them.
Rere

The D70 has the first "useable" digital TTL flash system out there. I don't think it's as good as something like an F5 with an SB28 but pretty close. The original digital TTL adapted from 35mm is pretty bad, I have it on my Fuji S2 and use "A" auto mode on the flash. Have to admit I've never used a D70 but seen a lot of flash shots from it, and it's impressive. A lot of people with the DX flashes (D100 with SB28DX or SB80DX) ended up using them on "A" mode too because it was more accurate. The D70 also has 1/500 flash sync. Pretty good setup for that kind of work!

The only downside is that the pre-fire on the D70/SB800 makes a lot of people close their eyes. I've seen photographers use this setup and it's about a half second of flash before the exposure. I guess there is a workaround if you're shooting the same scene over and over - you can pre-meter the flash and not have it pre fire every exposure, but if you're moving around you won't be able to do this (like at a wedding reception or event). I guess the D2 cameras' pre-flash is enough quicker that it's not noticable... Technology... ugh...

Hi,
I have to say that I use the D70 and the D100 with my SB800 on a stroboframe all the time professionally (from Taekwondo action and posed shots with backgrounds at events and at homes to weddings to posed pet photography in pet stores and homes) and I hardly ever see people (or animals) with their eyes closed. I have been using the D!00 for a year and the D70 for 8 months and have literally taken thousands upon thousands of photos (I use the flash for all shots even outside, though most are inside, if I'm shooting people or pets) and sold many and this is absolutely no problem.
Rere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by another view

The D70 has the first "useable" digital TTL flash system out there. I don't think it's as good as something like an F5 with an SB28 but pretty close. The original digital TTL adapted from 35mm is pretty bad, I have it on my Fuji S2 and use "A" auto mode on the flash. Have to admit I've never used a D70 but seen a lot of flash shots from it, and it's impressive. A lot of people with the DX flashes (D100 with SB28DX or SB80DX) ended up using them on "A" mode too because it was more accurate. The D70 also has 1/500 flash sync. Pretty good setup for that kind of work!

The only downside is that the pre-fire on the D70/SB800 makes a lot of people close their eyes. I've seen photographers use this setup and it's about a half second of flash before the exposure. I guess there is a workaround if you're shooting the same scene over and over - you can pre-meter the flash and not have it pre fire every exposure, but if you're moving around you won't be able to do this (like at a wedding reception or event). I guess the D2 cameras' pre-flash is enough quicker that it's not noticable... Technology... ugh...

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I use the SB28 with my F100 and negative film and the D70/SB800 is not as reliable as that combination. (Lets not forget that you can happily overexpose a negative film and recover in the lab so its maybe not just the camera/flash).

I did 400+ photos of my collegues last night. Its always the same people who close their eyes - the faster, more brilliant ones. The dullards are there staring bleakly at the camera, eyes wide open.

Charles
p.s. Hold on. When people did pictures of me - I had my eyes open. Blast

Well once again - I appreciate you all replying :)

I've pretty much decided on getting a D70 now :D

Cheers.

Actually, I have one more question:

As the D100 has a larger pentaprism viewfinder, compared to the D70s smaller pentamirror viewfinder, is the D70 viewfinder noticeably smaller and darker? Or do they actually seem quite similar?

Thanks a lot.

Hi,
I don't notice any difference between the D70 and the D100 when I'm looking in the viewfinder-am usually concentrating on my subject/s.
Rere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by red hot sheep

Actually, I have one more question:

As the D100 has a larger pentaprism viewfinder, compared to the D70s smaller pentamirror viewfinder, is the D70 viewfinder noticeably smaller and darker? Or do they actually seem quite similar?

Thanks a lot.

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Rere has answered the question so I'm going to add an irrelevant comment.

The viewfinder is the worst thing about the D70 (I don't have a D100). Its actually quite bright but too small to see face details in a group, for example. I find I shoot a lot more pictures because I'm not sure exactly what I'm getting. Its a relief to go back to the F80.

It looks like both D70 and D100 have a masked version of the F80 viewing system, which is why they're so small. I hope that in the D200 (or whatever) there will be a re-engineered system for the smaller format.

Charles

BTW now I've had time to look through the pictures I did on Friday night I can confirm what I said earlier about flash exposure (for this case anyway). Most of the time the D70+SB800 provided the right exposure or at least the best compromise. Most of the unusable shots are because the subjects aren't all at the same distance and some burnt out. On a negative film I would have survived but for digital I'm going to have to change my technique

Thanks for your comments Rere and Franglais - they have been very helpful. :cool:

As I haven't used many SLRs in the past, I don't think that I should notice the viewfinders being too small. It's also good to know that the pentamirror doesnt seem inferior to the pentaprism.

Thanks again,

Francis

A little advice, stay away from an F100 or F5! ;)

My Fuji S2 is worse than the D70 or D100 and I switch between that and the F100 and F5. It is something you do get used to, but I'd love something bigger and brighter, and in my case the D70 would be an improvement for that.

I really can't compare the D70 and D100's finders because I didn't see them at the same time, actually a fair amount of time between the two. But the difference between those and mine was pretty big. Not sure if Fuji has improved this on the new S3.

Just a couple more from Friday night.

First we have three software engineers all closing their eyes. It has a sort of involuntary poetry.

People complained that the flash was very bright so I tried using bounce off the white ceiling. In example number two we have a rarity - a burnt-out bounce shot. The ceiling was low and the person in front was just too close to the patch of light. Fortunately the image on the D70's LCD highlighted the burnt-out area and I was able to correct the lighting immediately - this feature is very useful.

BTW I was using standard TTL flash mode, not TTL BBL mode which might have tried to adjust the flash to the room light and have underexposed the images.

hehe - bit unfortunate about those people all closing their eyes at once!! Oh well, just photoshop some new eyes in :p ...

Hi,
I always use TTLBL rather than just TTL when I use an SB800 on a bracket for flash instead of studio lights. For my lenses and flash, according to the D70 and D100 books, this is the proper setting. This setting always gives the correct lighting without people having to close their eyes-though getting all of your subjects to close their eyes together is an art in itself.
Rere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rere15

Hi,
I always use TTLBL rather than just TTL when I use an SB800 on a bracket for flash instead of studio lights. For my lenses and flash, according to the D70 and D100 books, this is the proper setting. This setting always gives the correct lighting without people having to close their eyes-though getting all of your subjects to close their eyes together is an art in itself.
Rere

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AHA! Which books? Mine don't cover this.

I've noticed that sometimes I get dark results in TTL BBL mode, mostly in people's houses. I figured that at 400 ISO the camera was using 1/60 f5.6 which is underexposure for a living room. If the SB800 is trying to match the flash with the room light then it's going to be too dark.

Hence - in darkish conditions I tell the flash to use standard TTL and ignore incident light. I would have thought that BBL was just for bright conditions outdoors when you want fill-in rather than principal illumination

Charles

Hi,
Sorry, got my manuals mixed up. It's in the SB800 manual page 108. If you are using a CPU lens in any other camera mode except Manual on the D100, you are suppose to use the TTLBL mode on the speedlight. Even though the D70 is compatible with the CLS(Nikon's Creative Lighting System) my friend and I ( who also has the same 2 cameras and speedlightslways use this setting when we shoot in the A or S mode. Bottom line: if it works-do it.
By the way--another reason to buy the D70 over the D100, the D70 is compatible with CLS-though this will never come close to using a professional studio lighting system.
Keep shooting
Rere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rere15

Hi,
Sorry, got my manuals mixed up. It's in the SB800 manual page 108. If you are using a CPU lens in any other camera mode except Manual on the D100, you are suppose to use the TTLBL mode on the speedlight. Even though the D70 is compatible with the CLS(Nikon's Creative Lighting System) my friend and I ( who also has the same 2 cameras and speedlightslways use this setting when we shoot in the A or S mode. Bottom line: if it works-do it.
By the way--another reason to buy the D70 over the D100, the D70 is compatible with CLS-though this will never come close to using a professional studio lighting system.
Keep shooting
Rere

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I have already used the D70 with a professional lighting system and the results were great. I used the SB800 on manual mode to trigger the slaves.

My (French) D70 manual says (on page 94) says that i-TTL BBL mode is for when you want a "natural" effect with ambient light. The "standard" i-TTL mode is for when you want to make the main subject take prominence over the background or you want to use exposure correction.

I'll keep on working at it.

Charles

Hi,
When you used your SB800 to trigger the slaves of your studio lights, did you turn the head of the speedlight up or cover it with infrared tape? Why didn't you just use the built-in speedlight on the camera to trigger the slaves rather than the SB800?
Also, did you go into the camera and change the flash setting to manuel? (since it defaults to TTL and will give a preflash that triggers the slaves too early). I need to work with this-had trouble where the slaves were firing too early and not registering on the photo. I've been using the sync cord on one monolight and triggering the other monolight slave, but even though the cord is long enough, it's safer and nicer not to have to use it.
Rere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rere15

Hi,
When you used your SB800 to trigger the slaves of your studio lights, did you turn the head of the speedlight up or cover it with infrared tape? Why didn't you just use the built-in speedlight on the camera to trigger the slaves rather than the SB800?
Also, did you go into the camera and change the flash setting to manuel? (since it defaults to TTL and will give a preflash that triggers the slaves too early). I need to work with this-had trouble where the slaves were firing too early and not registering on the photo. I've been using the sync cord on one monolight and triggering the other monolight slave, but even though the cord is long enough, it's safer and nicer not to have to use it.
Rere

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First I tried to use the flash on the D70 in Manual mode 1/16 power but it wasn't always powerful enough to trigger the flashes. As I didn't want to increase the power in case it started to appear in the image, I used the SB80 with the head turned to point it at one of the slave flashes and set it to Manual and about 1/16 power. I forget if the put the flash back onto i-TTL mode - this all happened over several days.

My Monolite is distinctly "live" electrically and I never connect it directly to a camera except the all-mechanical Hasselblad. I have a variety of semi-pro units from Powerflash, Proflash and Hama which do the job.

Charles

Hi,
Yes, remembering to change the settings back on the camera (for the flash) from manual to TTL is what worries me.
I use the little Wein safe sync on the hotshoe of my cameras and connect one of the monolights to thaI. That way I know it will regulate the voltage and not burn up my camera.
I have a large reunion in about 3 weeks at a local hotel. so I need to get the studio geer out and make some test shots. Thanks for the info.
Rere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rere15

Hi,
Yes, remembering to change the settings back on the camera (for the flash) from manual to TTL is what worries me.
I use the little Wein safe sync on the hotshoe of my cameras and connect one of the monolights to thaI. That way I know it will regulate the voltage and not burn up my camera.
I have a large reunion in about 3 weeks at a local hotel. so I need to get the studio geer out and make some test shots. Thanks for the info.
Rere

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I had a similar sort of thing to do - a party to celebrate 25 years of a company's existence with about 350 employees.

I had a space about 20 feet wide and 15 feet deep with a nice empty wall as background. I didn't do anything complicated - one bare studio flash on either side, set so there was about one stop difference between them in the middle (measured with a flashmeter of course).

I could do anything from individuals to groups of 20 people, I just had to stick 'em up, make 'em laugh and shoot 'em down. The only problem was with the large groups because the people at the edges got slightly overexposed from being too close to the flashes.

One tip - make sure you take enough electrical cables. The only working electrical socket on my piece of wall was 20 feet off the ground..

Charles

Hi,
So you chose not to use umbrellas-you used the bare bulbs? I've never used only the bare bulbs. I'm a little afraid of shadows. I will probably use my 60 inch umbrellas and bounce the light into the silver part. Or I could take off the silver liners and shoot through the umbrellas, but afraid there will not be enough light that way. The quality of the light is always better with the silver. What do you think?
Thanks for the tip about the electrical cables--need to purchace more of them.
Rere

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rere15

Hi,
So you chose not to use umbrellas-you used the bare bulbs? I've never used only the bare bulbs. I'm a little afraid of shadows. I will probably use my 60 inch umbrellas and bounce the light into the silver part. Or I could take off the silver liners and shoot through the umbrellas, but afraid there will not be enough light that way. The quality of the light is always better with the silver. What do you think?
Thanks for the tip about the electrical cables--need to purchace more of them.
Rere

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For large groups you have to put the lights further away and the effect of the umbrella is more or less lost, plus it soaks up power.

I just think in terms of stage lighting and make sure I have a main light and a fill-in with the right balance. I'm surprised at how good it looks, but remember that the great portraitists of the 40's and 50's didn't have brollies.

Charles